3And “let not the son of the STRANGER, close to Jehovah, speak saying: Jehovah will completely separate me from his people. Nor let the eunuch say: Behold, I am a dry tree. —ISAIAH 56:3

LAWDEBATESTUDY PART 1] [2]THE LAW and THE LAW, Facing Evangelical Ineptitude, Part 2 [STUDY, CristoVerdad] [3]THE LAW and THE LAW, Facing Evangelical Ineptitude, Part 3 [STUDY, CristoVerdad]

The following study is based on a debate I had in a WhatsApp group called WhatsApp Biblical Debates. The conversation is intact, except for correction of spelling mistakes (when the meaning of what is said is lost) and some additions—noted as editing, which I added when converting that conversation into this study.

[5:43 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Open question for “teachers”, students, apprentices, curious people and know-it-alls:

For whom was the law given, and—in particular, the Sabbath?

What people (or peoples) did God call exclusively to observe his Law? And is that law in force, and why?

[5:50 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
The Israelites

[5:51 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Give me a Biblical basis. We must always document biblically what we expose, no matter how simple it may be so as not to give occasion to the devil.

Exo. 31:16, 17: “The children of Israel must keep the Sabbath, to carry out the Sabbath throughout their generations. It is a pact for an indefinite period [“perpetual pact”, VV (1977)].

[6:09 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
OK well. I have a question...

Since the law of the ten commandments “was given only for the Israelites”, does this mean that “honor your FATHER and your MOTHER” (5th) does not apply to us?

This commandment (5th) carries the principle of marriage of male and female. So if this was only for the Israelites, Why did God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah? Why did Elijah kill the 850 Prophets of Baal and Asherah, if “You will have no other gods” (1st) was not given for them?

Can God punish me for something he does not forbid me to do?

[6:11 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
The law was Given to the nation of Israel, do you notice that they keep it to this day?

[6:11 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
I'm not asking them, [I'm asking you]. But, as far as God is concerned, can God punish me for something that he does not forbid me to do?

Brother, are you Jewish?

[6:12 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
How to epixpilcate well

No, I'm Mexican

[6:14 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
So you are giving me to understand that the law was already in force since Adam?

[6:14 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Well, you told me that God gave the law only to the Israelites. And there is a commandment that says “thou shalt not kill.” And since I wasn't born in Israel, I guess that wasn't for me, and I can go out and kill people, well—after all, I wasn't given the law that prohibits killing [or stealing, adulteration, lying, covet, Etc.. Etc., Etc.].

Are you stating that?

[6:15 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
 An ignorance the law taught us what sin is, right 

[EDITION] Jose Luis Javier
Note, that Alex, in effect, gives us the true purpose of the law. Well, actually the law shows us the character of God (NUM. 15:37-41, 1 PET. 1:16), which is indirectly the same, since God is the one who defines what is good and what is bad, and the law is the tool through which he lets us see that. And if the law teaches us what is right, Don't we no longer need the law for us to know how to do what is right and reject sin... that is, to obey the will of God?

[6:16 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
I'm asking do you see this sign?????

[6:16 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
But you said that's only for the Israelites.

And what is sin?

[6:16 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
I asked you the question if you believe that the law was already given to Adam?
[Sin] Violation of the law obviously
So I ask you a question Is adultery a sin?

[6:17 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
No I dont think so. Well, it is not my belief that defines the truth. I don't believe it, God says it, and I believe God.
Of course [adultery is a sin].

[6:18 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Correct then the law was already there from Adam

[6:18 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Paul said it that “where there is no law, no Sin is imputed.” (ROM. 5:13)

[6:18 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Okay great

[6:18 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
So, if there is no [law] there can be no sin either.

[6:18 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Of course correct.
“Then you affirm that the law was already in place since Adam,” I answered?

[6:19 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Adam broke the law. The Bible says so.

[6:20 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Ok, did Abra rape her too?

The father of faith

[6:20 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Abraham kept it. (GEN. 26:5)

[6:21 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
But open tube 2 women

[6:21 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
[7] But they, like Adam, they crossed the covenant;  there they transgressed against me. —HOSEA 6:7

[6:21 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Indeed [Abraham had two wives].

[6:21 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
That is, one of the ten commandments committed adultery.

So why wasn't he convicted?

[6:22 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Do you know what repentance is?

[EDITION] Jose Luis Javier
And who told you that Abraham did not pay for his mistakes... Have you ever heard about the Israel-Palestine conflict? What happened between Sarah, Hagar and Imsael?

[6:22 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
So it can be seen that it was not an explicit law until 1513 years later, correct?

Did Abram regret it?

[6:23 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
I don't understand. Elaborate.

Why is Abraham the father of faith?

[6:24 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Well, Jehovah or Yahweh gave the law to a people called Israel, the laws, the ten commandments.
Yes, but where does the Bible say that he repented?
He had nothing to regret

[6:25 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Where does it say that he did not repent? The Bible says that he kept the law, and if he kept it, that's why he kept it, right?

[EDITION] Jose Luis Javier
God said that a man should have only one wife (GEN. 2:24). However, sin distorted God's original plan. There is not a single Biblical story where a man who served God and who had multiple women at the same time did not have problems. Abraham gave in to his wife's request (GEN. 24:12). However, Abraham, Jacob, David, Salomo—and others—faced the consequences of this action. We do not see that this was the case of ISAAC, who had only one wife. Sometimes, God carries out a discipline directly himself, and on other occasions he leaves man to assume the consequence of his actions (David). We see this throughout the Bible..

Did Israel ask Samuel for a king? Did God let Israel ask for a king? Did God allow it? Did God approve it? Did God directly punish Israel for rejecting him for a king, or did God let Israel pay dearly with their own actions? Did Israel pay dearly for asking for a King?

However, Did Abraham keep the law?

17And the LORD said, Shall I conceal from Abraham what I am about to do?
18Will Abraham be a great and strong nation, and will all the people of the earth be blessed in him?
19Because I have known him, I know that he will command his children and his household after him, let them keep the way of the Lord, doing justice and judgment, that the Lord may bring upon Abraham what he has spoken concerning him. —GENESIS 18:17-19 (See GEN. 26:5, PSA. 119:1)

[6:25 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
So why, since the Ten Commandments, when they are given on Mount Sinai, does the sin of adultery begin to be severely punished?

Which law read the Ten Commandments?

[6:26 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
When was the law first passed?

[6:26 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
By the way, I also murdered [Abraham]. [The law was given] On Mount Sinai the Ten Commandments

[6:27 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Let's go a little slow, then I have to correct a serious mistake. The law was given for mankind, not only for the Israelites. The Bible is too clear about this.

[6:27 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Didn't you say that the lawkeeper asked you the Ten Commandments?

[EDITION] Jose Luis Javier
We cannot say that Abraham committed adultery, the Bible does not call it as such. But God's recommendation was “One woman.” And everyone who did not follow that recommendation paid the consequences.

[6:27 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Fake. Read Exodus 16:4-5 and Exodus 15. That's before Sinai.  [There they are talking about the Sabbath—and I read it in general, even before EXODUS 20]. 

[6:28 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Not because the law was a distinctive mark between God and Israel, unless someone wanted to be part of the people, they had to be circumcised.

[6:28 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
[The] 10 Commandments, that's what you're talking about. Ok, let's see—

Let me show you…

[6:29 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
So if Abram violated those commandments, why wasn't he condemned?

If, according to you, the Ten Commandments already existed?

[EDITION] Jose Luis Javier
5Because Abraham heard my voice,  and kept  my precept,  my commandments, my statutes and my laws.  —GENESIS 26:5

[6:30 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
We will return to that point in a moment... You have gone ahead, and I have to correct the serious mistake you are making.

[6:30 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Well then we see that Abran was not convicted for murder and by adulterating that is, he was a just man.

[EDITION] Jose Luis Javier
We would like to know who Abraham murdered.

[6:31 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
I already told you, you said the law was only for Israel. It is wrong. Let's go separately, because that was the first thing I asked him.

[6:32 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Of course the Ten Commandments and the other laws which are no longer for Christians

[EDITION] Jose Luis Javier

Here there is a greater contradiction on your part, since in this same debate you say that "Christians did not keep the Sabbath" and that Jesus did not preach about it and the entire law. However, here you say that THEY ARE NO LONGER FOR CHRISTIANS... that is, they used to be; That is, the Christians (the disciples and followers of Jesus' time) did keep the law. Here is the reference, which we found in the second part of this debate:

ALEX CONTRADICTS HIMSELF

[8:23 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
“JESUS DID NOT PREACH THE SABBATH OR THE TEN COMMANDMENTS”

[8:52 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
“Obviously why Christians didn't keep the Sabbath”

[6:32 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Do you still maintain that…was the law of the Ten Commandments only for the Jews?

[6:34 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Exodus :31:16:17 there is the answer. Says the children of Israel. It doesn't say the Mexicans

[6:34 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Have you ever read the text that says “search the scriptures”? They are words of Jesus.

[6:35 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
If I'm giving you the Bible

[6:35 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Me too

[6:35 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
That is why I call you the children of Israel.

[6:35 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
But you are giving me a half-baked Bible, brother, [and on top of that, distorting it].

Ok, allow me…

[6:36 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Are you an Israelite and if so, what tribe are you from? Don't wait, I have something else prepared for you.

[6:37 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Allow me please…

[6:37 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Ok I wait ahead

[6:37 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Don't worry, I'm not going anywhere...

[6:37 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
I'm waiting

[6:38 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Ok, let's navigate the Bible... Genesis to Revelation...

[6:38 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
But don't copy and paste. What you know or have studied. Stop searching on Google

[6:39 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Are you forbidding me from using the Bible?

[6:40 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Don't just copy from the Adventist website.

[EDITION] Jose Luis Javier
Where does this individual get that I get information from the Adventist website? Hasn't that been the BIBLE that I have been showing you? Are you an Adventist or are you obsessed with Adventists? I warn you that Adventists are the same—although it may be difficult to believe, or more ignorant than you.

[6:40 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
I am writing to you what I know about it.

[6:40 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
I could be wrong, I'm human and I make mistakes.

[6:40 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
1So the heavens and the earth were finished, and all their host.
2And God finished on the seventh day the work he did; and he rested on the seventh day from all the work he did.
3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it, because in it he rested all the work he had done in creation. —GEN. 3:1-3

Where else do we find that text?

[6:41 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Who rest there is Adam. Oh, God

[6:41 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Exodus 20:8-11

8Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.
9Six days you will work, and you will do all your work;
10but on the seventh day It is rest to Jehovah your God; Do not do any work in it, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your maidservant, nor your beast, nor your foreigner who is within your gates.
11Because in six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all things that are in them, and rested on the seventh day; Therefore, Jehovah blessed the Sabbath day and sanctified it. —EXODUS 20:8-11

Read BOTH texts and compare.

[6:41 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Obviously to Israel. If you show me where the Bible says Adam and Eve kept the seventh day.

[6:42 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Exodus 20:10

10but the seventh day is a rest to the Lord your God; Do not do any work in it, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your servant, nor your maid, nor your beast,  nor your foreigner that is within your doors. —EXODUS 20:10

[6:42 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
I believe it is said that God rests from his creative hours

GÉNESIS 2:1-3 vs. ÉXODO 20:8-11[6:42 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Show me where it says Adam (and Eve) didn't keep it!

[6:43 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
And tell me, did God create it on Saturday?

[6:43 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Genesis 2:1-3.

[EDITION] Jose Luis Javier
Show me where it says Adam and Eve didn't keep it.

[6:43 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Simple why he didn't do it, his crime was eating from the tree, not not keeping the Sabbath.

[6:43 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Instituted to man for man's sake. It does not say to the Israelite.

[6:44 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Answer me the Rest

[6:44 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
What did God say would happen to Adam if he ate from the Tree?

[6:44 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
I would die

[6:44 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Adam did not keep the first Sabbath, [for the Sabbath was not instituted until after God rested in creation.] (GEN. 2:1-3).

[6:45 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Didn't he say if you don't keep the Sabbath you will die

[6:45 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
And what does Death bring?

[EDITION] Jose Luis Javier
The law is a whole that cannot be separated, Sanitago 2:10

[6:45 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
You see how you want to teach a fallacy

[6:45 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Which brings death? [Is not the Sabbath part of the law of the ten commandments?]

[6:45 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
The wages of sin is death

[6:45 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
???

[6:45 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
And what is sin? 1 John 3:4 to help you.

[6:46 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Tangrection of the law but which law?

[6:46 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Yeah, what law?

[6:46 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
The ten Commandments.

[6:46 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
?

[6:47 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
So, if Adam and Eve sinned it is because they violated the law of the ten commandments [and the Sabbath is part of that law].

 What is the first commandment of the law? 

[6:47 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Are you sure I now understand that the law of the Ten Commandments is valid to this day for Christians?

[6:47 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Love God with all your heart

[EDITION] Jose Luis Javier
And what is love?—ROM.13:10

[6:48 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
I'm going to kill the rooster in the case, with a single text... I wanted to take you along, but you are very impatient. Do you want to impose your beliefs or do you want the light to shine, regardless of who is right or wrong?

[6:48 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Yes, but there was no law as such, it was not necessary, they were perfect human beings without sin.

[EDITION] Jose Luis Javier
The law was for them to remain that way, perfect and sinless. You already said it, “sin is transgression of the law.” (1 JOHN 3:4)

[6:49 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Was the command given to Adam part of the Ten Commandments?

[EDITION] Jose Luis Javier
My friend, you are gross. The first commandment of the law says "You can not have others gods in front of me", and the fourth tells us that God is ours creator. By disobeying God and eating from the tree that God said not to eat, Adam and Eve automatically: to) I serve a god—Satan, and b) Obviously, they dishonored their creator, and c) They dishonored HIS FATHER, thus directly violating the first, fourth, and fifth commandments of the law. And even before eating the fruit of the tree, Eve had already coveted it (GEN 3:5-6), another violation of the law. I could go on, but with a pervert and inept like you it's not worth the effort. ““Search the scriptures.”, says the gentleman.

[6:50 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
You can eat from every tree in the garden until you are satisfied, but from the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you should not eat from it because if you eat you will die.

[6:51 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
My brother, you are lacking discernment. If Adam was going to die by eating the fruit, and Death is only achieved by violating the law,  What is the text talking about then? 

[6:51 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Tell me which commandment of the ten was that? Answer

[EDITION] Jose Luis Javier
Adam and Eve raped each of the ten commandments. For the benefit of those who hate darkness, here is a study that shows it in detail. [1]“The Law, The Jews & You [STUDY, CristoVerdad]

You simply don't connect the most basic and essential things about writing. You have nothing—ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, of insight. I recommend that you stop eating pork and turn off the TV and start studying the Bible, because obviously the pork and all the garbage that you consume in your body and mind have already eaten your brain. I recommend the following topic...you really need it.

[6:51 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Disobedience but not of the Ten Commandments. But one directly that came from the creator nothing more.

[EDITION] Jose Luis Javier
I will give you a sample of what we presented in the study that we already mentioned above. Alex says that a higher commandment coming from the creator was violated. First of all, we ask, Does the Bible present “Another” commandment that is above its Holy Law?

Now the first commandment of the law of God says the following—

3You can not have others gods in front of me. —GENESIS 20:3

We ask, did Adam and Eve violate that commandment by obeying the devil instead of God? “Did they or did they not eat from the tree that God said “thou shalt not eat”? Did they submit to an alien god [Satan] or to the true God?

[6:52 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
WE DESTROY THE ERROR DIRECTLY

[6:52 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Explain that text to me now. Let me know if you want another one.

[6:54 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Hahaha he is talking about the covenant of the law the Mosaic law With that, I told you that those who wanted to be part of God's people at that time had to do

[6:54 PM, 9/17/2019] Teddy (Agustín)
And why shouldn't they eat from that tree of the knowledge of good and evil? Because they would be like gods. [GEN. 3:5]]

[6:54 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
That pact was invalidated. It was a direct mandate from the creator, that's what the story says.

[EDITION] Jose Luis Javier
Indeed, my dear Alex, Israel violated the pact, invalidating it. Did God invalidate it? When you violate a covenant, are you rewarded or chastised? When your children validate your orders, do you give them gifts as rewards?

However, How did God react to that invalidation?

8For rebuking them he says: Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord,  And I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. ;
9Not like the covenant I made with their fathers on the day I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt: Because they NO They remained in my covenant,  And I despised them,  says the Lord.
10Whereby,  this is the pact which I will command to the house of Israel After those days, says the Lord:  I will give my laws in their souls, And on their hearts I will write them;  And I will be their God, and they will be my people:
11And no one shall teach his neighbor, Nor any his brother, saying, Know the Lord: Because everyone will know me, From the youngest of them to the oldest. —HEBREWS 8:8-11
(See JERERMIAS. 31:31-35)

Ineptitude is a sin of death (HOSEA 4:6); stay away from her.

[6:55 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
14 And not only with you  I make this pact and this oath,
15but with those who stand here with us today before the Lord our God,  and with those who are not here with us today.  —DEUTERONOMY 29:14-15

[6:55 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
You wait for me, I'm going to have dinner, we'll continue then, as you can see, the topic is good. I love talking about the law.

[6:55 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
7But they, like Adam, transgressed the covenant; there they transgressed against me. —HOSEA 6:7

Please explain to me.

[6:56 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
I'll explain to you in a moment

[6:56 PM, 9/17/2019] Teddy (Agustín)
The last verses of chapter 3 of Genesis deciphers why they had to differentiate good from evil

[EDITION] Jose Luis Javier
Indeed, Teddy. Let's see what you mean—

24 So he cast out the man, And he placed cherubim on the east side of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword that moved everywhere,  to guard the path of the tree of life.  —GENESIS 3:24

After Adam and Eve fell, they were thrown out of Eden, and they lost access to the tree of life. This is so that man would not live forever while he continued sinning. (GEN 3:22). Then he gave man the plan of redemption (GEN. 3:21), by shedding the blood of Christ (APC. 13:8) thus giving access to grace. But God left a very specific condition so that man could once again have access to the tree of life, and therefore to eternity:

14Blessed are THOSE WHO KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, to have the right to the tree of life and let them enter through the gates into the city. —REVELATION 22:14

And didn't Adam and Eve not violate the law of the ten commandments? Here we clearly see that the method used by God before and after the fall of man is the same: “keep my law and you will live” (PROV. 7:2) (GEN 3:3)

[REPEATED] [6:56 PM, 9/17/2019] Teddy (Agustín)
The last verses of chapter 3 of Genesis deciphers why they had to differentiate good from evil

[6:56 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
And what does good and evil teach you?

7What shall we say, then? IS THE LAW A SIN? In no way.  But I did not know sin except through the law;  for neither would I know covetousness, unless the law said, Thou shalt not covet. —ROMANS 7:7

[6:58 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
You're helping me, Teddy.

[6:58 PM, 9/17/2019] Teddy (Agustín)
Well the final verses of chapter 3 are genesis, it clearly says NOW THEY ARE LIKE ONE OF US KNOWING GOOD AND EVIL, then the path that leads to the tree of life with 2 cherubim and a flaming sword is cut off, so that they would not continue being immortal.

Eating from the tree of life

[EDITION] Jose Luis Javier
OK, right, I already expanded on that.

[6:59 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Did Adam know good and evil before he sinned?

[6:59 PM, 9/17/2019] Teddy (Agustín)
Because did not allow God that Cain and Abel were born into immortality?

[EDITION] Jose Luis Javier
I didn't notice this question during the debate, but I'll give you the answer here, Teddy.

Where does the Bible say that God did not allow Cain and Abel to be born before immortality? Under what biblical principle do you conclude that God did not allow [An action] that Cain and Abel were born before Adam and Eve sinned? In fact, The Bible teaches exactly the opposite.

28And God blessed them; and God said to them:  Be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth,  and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over all the beasts that move on the earth. —GENESIS 1:28

This was the first order that God gave to man after being created. (GEN. 1:26-27), before the man fell. The reason Cain and Abel did not come before sin was not because God forbade it, as you falsely present, but because Adam and Eve sinned too quickly. In fact, Adam and Eve sinned in the very first year of their creation. I'll leave that to you as homework, although I already presented the biblical texts that affirm this!

[7:00 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
How do we regain access to the Tree of Life? [It has already been explained] [Cain and Abel were born after immortality] because sin had already entered. Did Cain know that killing is bad?

[7:01 PM, 9/17/2019] [7:03 PM, 9/17/2019] (Agustín)
No, because as a result of eating the fruit that was forbidden to them, the fundamental thing came to all humans: free will, freedom of choice, being aware of what is good and what is not. Yes, he did, because he knew what happened to his parents in the Garden of Eden.

[7:02 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
If they did not know it, how then could they understand the consequences of eating from the tree of knowledge?

[7:02 PM, 9/17/2019] Teddy (Agustín)
And how they were expelled

[7:02 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Is there a commandment that says “thou shalt not kill”? Remember, you say that the law of the ten commandments did not exist in Eden.

ADAM AND THE LAW
7But they, like Adam, transgressed the covenant; there they transgressed against me. —HOSEA 6:7

[7:03 PM, 9/17/2019] (Agustín)
They did not know death or illness or old age, so then they were like unpolished beings. They were like children or like beings without sinfulness

[7:04 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
But God told him “you will surely die.” He [Adam] I had to understand that, No?

It's very simple Brother. You are drowning in a glass of water.

[7:04 PM, 9/17/2019] Teddy (Agustín)
The animals didn't even die or get sick.

In fact, Teddy, where the law is kept, there can be no death. Violation of the law is what defines sin (1 JOHN 3:4). AND “the wages of sin”—that is, the pay for violating the law, “is death” (ROM. 6:23). How difficult is something so simple to understand?

[7:04 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
 Once again that is what tells us the difference between. Good and evil? 

Everything was perfect… Because the law of God is perfect—

7 The law of the Lord is perfect,  that returns the soul: The testimony of Jehovah, faithful, that makes the little one wise. —PSALMS 19:7

[7:05 PM, 9/17/2019] Teddy (Agustín)
You wouldn't know how to tell them apart if they had never met. And everything falls into a plan

[7:05 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
[Everything was perfect] until man sinned (the Law broke).

[REPEAT] [7:05 PM, 9/17/2019] Teddy (Agustín)
You wouldn't know how to tell them apart if they had never met. And everything falls into a plan

[7:06 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
So God is unfair? Didn't God punish them for disobedience?

[7:07 PM, 9/17/2019] Teddy (Agustín)
Do you believe that if God had really wanted things this way, he would not have destroyed Satan immediately? Or would he have made another couple if he really wanted that?

[7:07 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Does a two-year-old know that killing is bad?

[7:07 PM, 9/17/2019] Teddy (Agustín)
As you said, he is a child, just like Adam and Eve.

[7:07 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Did God want Adam and Eve to sin? [You said it was all part of a plan]

ohWell, then God is unjust.

[7:08 PM, 9/17/2019] Teddy (Agustín)
It was part of a plan greater than our point of view.

[7:08 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
[If God] punished them for doing something they did not understand. That's called injustice

You are already philosophizing, and you know it. God is Holy (1 PED 1:15-16), don't forget: Also fair (ESD. 9:15,). And God—my friend, He is not going to punish anyone who is not aware of what they are committing.

5Clement is Jehovah and fair; Yes, merciful It is our god. —PSALMS 116:5

[7:09 PM, 9/17/2019] Teddy (Agustín)
We know that Christ was predestined to give his life as a sacrifice for all humanity before the world was created, how is that possible if there is no plan?

[7:09 PM, 9/17/2019] Teddy (Agustín)
Answer me to that

[7:10 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Give me the Biblical text. First, I already demonstrated to you that the law is for humanity, and you have not commented on it.

[7:17 PM, 9/17/2019] (Agustín)
1 Peter 1:19 and 20

[7:17 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
19but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without spot and without spot,
20 already destined before the foundation of the world,  but manifested in the last times for your sake, —1 PETER 1:19-20

I already had it for you [the biblical text]. Brother, where did sin begin?

[7:18 PM, 9/17/2019] Teddy (Agustín)
He was already destined to come to earth, as it is before the foundation of the world, it can also be written or translated predestined. Well, it is before making the earth.

[7:19 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Predestined is something else... But tell me, where did sin begin?

The question I ask you, Did God know that man would sin, or did God predestinate him to sin?

Don't Google me, bro. You yourself banned it.

[7:22 PM, 9/17/2019] Teddy (Agustín)
MORMON CHANNEL QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

The fall part 1 and 2

[7:23 PM, 9/17/2019] Teddy (Agustín)
Here is a clear explanation

[7:23 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Brother, please respect the space… We are having a debate here right now.

[EDITION] Jose Luis Javier
I hadn't realized that I was talking to someone else and not Alex, who had gone to dinner, since I didn't have the numbers on file in my contacts. When I saw the audios I realized it was another person.

[7:23 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Thank you.

[7:23 PM, 9/17/2019] Teddy (Agustín)
This is not a debate

[7:23 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Then publish your material.

[7:23 PM, 9/17/2019] Teddy (Agustín)
I am passing information

[7:23 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Yes, it is a Debate. You can pass it later. There are no problems with that.

[7:24 PM, 9/17/2019] Teddy (Agustín)
OK, go ahead

[7:24 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Thank you very much, the courtesy is appreciated.

[7:28 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Did God predestinate man to sin?

I'm just waiting for brother Alex to return. Praying all is well with him.

[7:53 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Now I'm back

[7:53 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
49The same law will be for the native, and for the foreigner  that I will dwell among you. —EXODUS 12:49

[7:53 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Where are we staying I see many messages

[7:53 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Excellent. Is everything okay with you brother?

There are not many [messages]. [Any more, I didn't know that I had been talking to someone else for quite a while]

[7:54 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Of course, thank God. Forward

[7:54 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Okay, Are we now clear that the law was for all humility?

[7:54 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Ok then you say the law is for all humans. OK.

[7:55 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
No, I say it, the Bible says it.

[7:55 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
No I do not agree [that the law was for all humanity]

[EDITION] Jose Luis Javier
The word of God says—

27He also said to them: On Saturday by cause of the man is done; Noel man by cause of the Saturday. —MARK 2:27

Where does it say in the Bible that the Sabbath was made for the sake of the Israelites? “Because of man” is that simply that, “because of man”-The humanity. And the first man created was Adam, who was not an Israelite!

[7:55 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Where ?

[7:55 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Don't you agree with God?

[7:55 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
The Bible says that Israel

[7:55 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier

THE LAW AND THE ALIEN
49 The same law will be for the natural, and for abroad that I will dwell among you. —EXODUS 12:49

[7:55 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Show me where the Canaanites and the Philistines kept the Sabbath. Show me if you say it's for everyone

[7:56 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
That's why God destroyed them... For violating the law.

[EDITION] Jose Luis Javier
Show me when the devil has kept the law of God. That is to say, when the devil has served God. Is that the best argument you have?

[7:56 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Your theory doesn't make sense.

[7:56 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
I have no theory, I have the Bible!

[7:56 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Where does the Bible say that?

[7:56 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier

THE LAW AND THE ALIEN
49 The same law will be for the natural, and for abroad that I will dwell among you. —EXODUS 12:49

[7:56 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Explain to me.

[7:56 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
So it was not obligatory to keep the law

[7:59 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier

[7:59 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Ok then why didn't he destroy the Egyptians?
They broke the law

[8:00 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
1When the Lord your God has brought you into the land into which you will enter to take it,  and has cast out before you  to many nations,  to the Hittite, to the Girgashite, to the Amorite, to the Canaanite, to the Perizzite, to the Hivite, and to the Jebusite,  seven nations greater and more powerful than you, —DEUTERONOMY 7:1

[8:00 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
And to this day it exists as an Egyptian nation

[8:00 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Read Acts 13:19

Do you read the Bible brother?

[8:00 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
No my friend, you are wrong, you want to keep a law that was not given for you but for the tribes of Israel.
Yes [I read the Bible]

[8:01 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Don't know the story of the Exodus?

[8:01 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Because. Ave but Egypt still exists to this day and the Canaanites the Philistines do not

[8:02 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Explain if why it was not completely destroyed?

[8:02 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
5But I want to remind you, since you once knew it, that the Lord,  having saved the people by bringing them out of Egypt, then he destroyed those who did not believe .

[8:02 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Yes but not the city. And the city of the Canaanites and the Philistines, right?

[8:03 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
See how you take text out of context

[EDITION] Jose Luis Javier
3 And the Lord gave favor to the people in the eyes of the Egyptians . Moses was also considered a great man in the land of Egypt, in the eyes of Pharaoh's servants, and in the eyes of the people.

[8:03 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Egypt exists to this day, you are not going to deny it to me.

[8:03 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
In Egypt there were people who feared God.

[8:04 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
So clearly those who left in the exodus agreed. But after?

[8:04 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
God only destroys the wicked. [God is fair, don't forget]

[8:05 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Then he approved the dolatry law of the Egyptians!
Barbarian
I did not know it

[EDITION] Jose Luis Javier
You already know

3 And the Lord gave favor to the people in the eyes of the Egyptians . Moses was also considered a great man in the land of Egypt, in the eyes of Pharaoh's servants, and in the eyes of the people.

[8:05 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Wherever there is a faithful there is mercy.

[8:05 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Well let's continue we see you couldn't respond.

[8:05 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Do you understand that?

[8:05 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
No no. You couldn't answer

[8:06 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
No, but I didn't give you what you want to hear. That is different.

[8:06 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Why didn't God destroy the city of Egypt? If they broke the law? They did not worship the true God but pagans

[EDITION] Jose Luis Javier
Are you rude, do you act, or do they pay you to be? But I'm here to help you.

[8:07 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
21And the Lord will be known to Egypt,  and those of Egypt will know the Lord on that day,  and they will make sacrifice and oblation; and they will make vows to the Lord, and they will fulfill them.
22And the Lord will strike Egypt; will hurt and heal,  and they will turn to the Lord,  and he will be gracious to them and heal them.
23At that time there will be a highway from Egypt to Assyria, and Assyrians will enter Egypt, and Egyptians into Assyria; and the Egyptians will serve the Lord with the Assyrians.
24At that time, Israel will be third with Egypt and with Assyria; It will be a blessing in the middle of the earth;
25For the Lord of hosts will bless them, saying:  Blessed are my people Egypt,  and Assyria is the work of my hands, and Israel is my inheritance. —ISAIAH 19:21-22

[8:07 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Well now let's see if the law is for Christians, okay?

[EDITION] Jose Luis Javier
And how many times do I have to show him this inept person before his brain unravels?

[8:07 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier
Does God want to destroy man, or for man to repent?

[8:08 PM, 9/17/2019] Alex (Evangelical)
Yes, of course, as you said, some, not all, but in the past?

[8:08 PM, 9/17/2019] José Luis Javier

THE LAW AND THE ALIEN
49The same law will be for the natural, and for abroad that I will dwell among you.

7 But they, like Adam, transgressed the covenant; there they transgressed against me. —HOSEA 6:7

14 And not only with you do I make this pact and this oath,
15but with those who are herebe present with us today before Jehovah our God,  and with those who are not here with us today.  —DEUTERONOMY 29:14-15

END OF THE FIRST PART

LAWDEBATESTUDY PART 1] [2]THE LAW and THE LAW, Facing Evangelical Ineptitude, Part 2 [STUDY, CristoVerdad] [3]THE LAW and THE LAW, Facing Evangelical Ineptitude, Part 3 [STUDY, CristoVerdad]

—JOSÉ LUIS JAVIER

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